Hay’s non-Exegesis of John 10:34–6, where is the Exegesis?

So I’m going to go a little bit backwards here in responding to Steve Hays latest response to me. I’m going to start with John 10:34–36, which was, originally, the entire point of this exchange, and in my view the point of dispute.  I’m going to ignore all the other distractions untill we can get out of Hays an actual coherent exegesis of the text in dispute. I have a straightforward reading of that passage and I’ll give it below.

Jesus answered, “Is it not written in your law, ‘I said, you are gods’?

Citing Psalms 82 where beings, which are not Yahweh, are called gods.

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Hay’s non-Exegesis of John 10:34–6, where is the Exegesis?

Where is Hay’s argument?

Me and Steven Hays have been going at it over a couple posts, and we’re kind of going in circles and I feel like the points are being lost, so I’m going to focus on the main points here. The main points in this dialogue are, in my opinion, what was Jesus’ claim that his enemies were responding to, and how did Jesus reply to their accusations.

Steven sees an allusion to the Shema in John 10:30, I don’t, in fact I don’t see any evidence whatsoever for an allusion to the Shema, the only word that is the same is the word “one” and John 10:30 uses a different form of that word. Therefore, I’m going to ask Steve Hays again, what evidence is there that Jesus is alluding to the Shema, here is John 10:30:

Continue reading “Where is Hay’s argument?”

Where is Hay’s argument?

What on Earth is Jesus saying in John 10:34–36

It looks like the debate between me and Steve Hays over John 10:30–36 is still going on. He replied to my post which was a response to a response of  a criticism of an exegesis. I think this debate is important, not only for Christology—but also for how we do exegesis. You’ll see that both me and Steve Hays have different approaches to exegesis, it’s up to you do decide which one is more consistent and faithful to the text. In this response I’m going to focus on the issues of the Shema in John 10:30, and the actual exegesis of John 10:34–36, the rest of the post (John 1, the concept of messiahship, and so on) I’ll deal with in the comment section so as to keep this debate on subject.

On the Shema in John 10:30 Hays says:

Continue reading “What on Earth is Jesus saying in John 10:34–36”

What on Earth is Jesus saying in John 10:34–36

But what does it mean? And what’s the response?

In my last post I responded to a rather bad exegesis of John 10:30-36 by Steve Hays, I say it’s bad with no disrespect, all trinitarians readings of this text are going to end up being bad exegesis. Steve has since replied to my response and I feel I would be remiss if I didn’t given his defense of his reading a good shot and a reply. So here it goes:

Some guy named Roman A. Montero–evidently a unitarian–attempted to respond on Tuggy’s behalf to a post of mine.

Not on Tuggy’s behalf, on my own behalf, I can only speak for myself.

Continue reading “But what does it mean? And what’s the response?”

But what does it mean? And what’s the response?

1 Corinthians 8:6, splitting the Shema with Dr. Nabeel Qureshi (and N.T. Wright)

What is God Really Like: Tawhid or Trinity? Dr. Shabir Ally and Dr. Nabeel Qureshi Debate

Back to this debate, there’s another point that Dr. Qureshi makes, which has been made before specifically by N.T. Wright in his work on Paul. At about the 31 minute mark Dr. Qureshi says:

In 1 Corinthians 8:6 We see Paul, I’m sorry this is actually pre Pauline, as Bart Ehrman would argue, he does Argue in his new book, the earliest, even before Paul, even before Mark, Christians took the Shema, “Shema Yisrael Yahweh Eloheinu Yahweh Echad” took that and divided that up, between the father and the son.

Now let’s look at the text, of 1 Corinthians 8:6 (in the NRSV, including verse 5 for some context)

Indeed, even though there may be so-called gods in heaven or on earth—as in fact there are many gods and many lords— yet for us there is one God, the Father, from whom are all things and for whom we exist, and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things and through whom we exist.

And here is it in the Greek.

5 καὶ γὰρ εἴπερ εἰσὶν λεγόμενοι θεοὶ εἴτε ἐν οὐρανῷ εἴτε ἐπὶ γῆς, ὥσπερ εἰσὶν θεοὶ πολλοὶ καὶ κύριοι πολλοί,

6 ἀλλ’ ἡμῖν εἷς θεὸς ὁ πατὴρ

ἐξ οὗ τὰ πάντα καὶ ἡμεῖς εἰς αὐτόν, καὶ εἷς κύριος Ἰησοῦς Χριστὸς δι’ οὗ τὰ πάντα καὶ ἡμεῖς δι’ αὐτοῦ.

Now then, let’s look at the Shema from Deuteronomy 6:4, I’m going to quote it 3 times, English (NRSV), Greek (LXX) and the Hebrew.

Hear, O Israel: The Lord is our God, the Lord alone.[a]

[a]Or The Lord our God is one Lord, or The Lord our God, the Lord is one, or The Lord is our God, the Lord is one

Here it is in the LXX

῎Ακουε, Ισραηλ· κύριος ὁ θεὸς ἡμῶν κύριος εἷς ἐστιν·

And Finally the Hebrew.

שמע ישראל יהוה אלהינו יהוה ׀ אחד ׃

Continue reading “1 Corinthians 8:6, splitting the Shema with Dr. Nabeel Qureshi (and N.T. Wright)”

1 Corinthians 8:6, splitting the Shema with Dr. Nabeel Qureshi (and N.T. Wright)